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med_cat: (cat in dress)
med_cat: (cat in dress)

Does anyone know what these plants are?

med_cat: (cat in dress)
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Comments

Sep. 11th, 2019 05:47 pm (UTC)
EDIT: My mistake; not pokeberry; wrong kind of leaves. Pretty sure that's elderberry (https://www.ecosia.org/images?q=elderberry+#id=D33C3E044B213847397FD49BB27CA1BCF57EC453). (Bottom picture, no clue, sorry!)

Edited 2019-09-11 05:58 pm (UTC)
med_cat: (Default)
Sep. 11th, 2019 06:15 pm (UTC)
Ah, interesting re: elderberry. Several bushes of this have grown around our yard; the flowers were small and white, and butterflies were all over them, by the dozen ;) I should've taken a video.

Thanks!
Sep. 11th, 2019 06:36 pm (UTC)
Surely welcome! Here's elder flower (https://www.ecosia.org/images?q=elder+flower).
med_cat: (Default)
Sep. 11th, 2019 07:24 pm (UTC)
Yes, that's what the flowers looked like :)
ext_45018: (Default)
Sep. 12th, 2019 08:39 am (UTC)
They're definitely not the typical elderberries (Sambucus nigra), though! The leaves are different (you can see the "correct" leaves in [livejournal.com profile] lindahoyland's photo, and these have a different shape, colour, and texture!), as is the arrangement of the berries. It could be dwarf elder (Sambucus ebulus), which is in fact poisonous. It's a different toxin than the one found in ordinary elderberries - the latter can be neutralised by cooking, whereas the one found in dwarf elder can't!

Edited 2019-09-12 09:25 am (UTC)
Sep. 13th, 2019 06:17 am (UTC)
Possibly, but Sambucus ebulus isn't a North American plant, and is only listed as naturalized in New York, New Jersey and Quebec. Grieves' Modern Herbal (http://botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/e/elderd05.html) says:
"The Dwarf Elder differs from the Common Elder in being a herbaceous plant seldom exceeding 3 feet in height and dying back to the ground every year, spreading by underground shoots from the creeping root.

---Description---In leaf, flower and subsequent berry it bears a close resemblance to the Common Elder tree; the stem, however, is not woody and the leaves are distinguished by having a stipule, or small leaf, at the base of the finely-toothed leaflets, which are more numerous than those of the Common Elder, usually seven in number, larger and narrower and sometimes lobed.
.... [livejournal.com profile] med_cat's first photo does show a woody stem, so that would seem to rule dwarf elder out.

The common elderberry of our East Coast is Sambuca canadensis (https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/sambucus-canadensis/), also called American elderberry (https://homeguides.sfgate.com/difference-between-american-elder-elderberry-tree-77489.html) - here's more images (https://www.ecosia.org/images?q=Sambucus+canadensis) to compare.

All elderberries are somewhat toxic, but according to this site on Sambucus ebulus (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5871274/), "Stomach upset also could happen by the fruit of these species. Yet, this toxicity is at such a low level that could be prevented by cooking." I wouldn't advise picking them in any case; the world is full of better things to eat.

Edited 2019-09-13 06:19 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (Default)
Sep. 13th, 2019 08:46 am (UTC)
Well, I'm definitely not familiar enough with North American plants (except those that were brought in by us peksy Europeans...)! The stem in the photo looks very woody indeed (but entirely different from the European elderberry). From the pictures you've linked to, it doesn't look like Sambuca canadensis either, though.

Yeah, there are definitely better things to experiment with.

Sep. 13th, 2019 11:12 pm (UTC)
North America has a zillion different berries, both native and introduced, that I would categorize as 'bird berries' - smooth (without drupelets) and ranging from pink to orange to blue to black. Some of them are highly toxic, some mildly toxic, some perfectly safe, some safe if cooked - many of them easy to mistake for something else (which is also the problem with our mushrooms.) Best not to eat any of them unless you're absolutely sure.

On the other hand, any berry with drupelets is safe to eat, and we have plenty of those too; mulberries, blackberries, raspberries, marionberries, thimbleberries, salmonberries - more than enough for everybody's pie, jam and wine.
ext_45018: (grins)
Sep. 14th, 2019 08:15 am (UTC)
Yeah, we don't have as many of them, but "don't eat them unless you're sure" applies to both berries and mushrooms here, too!
Sep. 11th, 2019 07:05 pm (UTC)
My guess is elderberry bushes too.
med_cat: (Default)
Sep. 11th, 2019 07:24 pm (UTC)
Thanks :)
Sep. 12th, 2019 02:20 am (UTC)
My elderberry "forest"
Image (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52734929@N08/48712044973/in/dateposted/)

Image (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52734929@N08/48712021958/in/dateposted/)
Sep. 12th, 2019 06:53 am (UTC)
https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/blog/2017/09/elderberry-recipes/
ext_45018: (gardening & stuff - starflower)
Sep. 12th, 2019 08:45 am (UTC)
From the leaves and the arrangement of the fruit, I would assume the top picture shows danewort/dwarf elder (Sambucus ebulus), which unfortunately has no culinary uses unless you want to cook an emetic.

The middle and bottom ones are hard to identify without knowing whether it's a shrub or a baby tree, and without seeing any flowers or fruits. If it's a baby tree, it could be lime or poplar or aspen. Further research necessary!

Edited 2019-09-12 09:29 am (UTC)
ext_45018: (tolkien - Ya is for Yavanna)
Sep. 12th, 2019 09:33 am (UTC)
Image

Here, this is Sambucus nigra, the edible (after cooking!) one. If you contrast it with your picture, you can see that it really is an entirely different plant. The leaves of Sambucus nigra consist of up to five (rarely seven) leaflets, whereas your plant up there has up to nine. The leaves are rounder than those of the plant in your picture, and their margins are much more serrated. The berry clusters of Sambucus nigra are loose and drooping, whereas those of Sambucus ebulus have much shorter stems and are arranged similar to ivy berries. The bark, too, is different.

TL;DR That plant in your picture definitely isn't the kind of elder you should be using in those recipes that [livejournal.com profile] petrusplancius linked. Leave it for the birds.

Edited 2019-09-12 02:07 pm (UTC)
Sep. 13th, 2019 06:39 am (UTC)
The leaves of American elderberry (http://illinoiswildflowers.info/trees/plants/cm_elder.htm), Sambuca canadensis, have five to nine leaflets.

Dwarf elder (https://plantsam.com/sambucus-ebulus/), Sambucus ebulus, isn't a shrub (has no woody stem) and apparently the flowers and berries grow only at the top of the plant, not all over the branches like American elderberry. Also, it doesn't grow wild in the state of Maryland.

(Sorry for all the edits; can't get images to embed.)

Edited 2019-09-13 06:47 am (UTC)
med_cat: (Default)
Sep. 14th, 2019 01:23 am (UTC)
Thank you for all the info, ladies; I am going to leave the berries for the birds, anyhow :)

I just wanted to make sure it wasn't some super-poisonous or, especially, dangerous on contact (like poison ivy) plant, as it's growing right where the raspberry bushes are.
Sep. 14th, 2019 08:20 am (UTC)
If you take a sprig of it over to your local County Extension Service or Master Gardener's Club, they'll probably be able to give you a positive identification. It's hard to be sure from a photo, especially since we're not in the same eco-system.

This is poison sumac (https://www.marylandbiodiversity.com/viewSpecies.php?species=1419&showAll=1) - it has leaflets, but definitely does not have (https://www.thespruce.com/poison-sumac-pictures-4071931) purple berries, so you're good.

Edited 2019-09-14 08:23 am (UTC)
med_cat: (Default)
Sep. 15th, 2019 06:14 am (UTC)
Thanks :)
med_cat: (Default)
Sep. 15th, 2019 06:14 am (UTC)
Thanks :)

Re: the middle and bottom photos--it looks like a large weed! Grew a few weeks ago down our street, by the side of the road.